You Can Know God

The Problem with Buildings

I just got a Christmas card from a particular denomination that had a picture of the new denominational headquarters on the front. This is symbolic with a lot of the problem with the church in general, and part of the reason so many people have a problem with “organized religion.”

Look at most church websites, and find the “about us” tab and most of the time, you’ll see a brief history of the church. It will include, and might even focus on, the various buildings. Then in 1996, we built an education building.  And in 2001, we moved into the new worship center.

And all the while, the church as a whole is spouting off about how the church isn’t a building and how they aren’t really necessary. But we don’t put our money where our mouth is.

One thing that being a 16-month-old portable church plant has taught me (and I hope I always remember it) is that it really isn’t about the building. We met in a movie theater; now we meet in a high school. We have an office, but that’s the only facility that we can call our own. This may change one day, or it may not. I don’t really care. The way I see it, every movie theater in the country could be a church building. I don’t believe we need a $8 Million “sanctuary” to reach people for Jesus.

I thought about writing into our bylaws that at the end of 30 years, the church would be required to sell all it’s buildings and split up on purpose into smaller churches and, in effect, start over. I don’t know if that’s really practical, but it would keep the focus off building shopping mall sized facilities. It would keep a movement of God from becoming a monument to a facility.

I’m not anti building…it can certainly be a tool.  I love the fact that Perry let people write all over the walls of their new building - that’s a focus on the people.  I love the fact that Francis Chan decided not to build a $30 million building, but instead, have church outside so they could do more for the Gospel around the world. Buildings can be good tools…I just don’t think we’ll put a picture of ours on the front of a Christmas card.

- Sponsored by Updatable.cc - beautiful, client-controlled websites for businesses and non-profits alike.

Is Oak Leaf Church Seeker Sensitive?

I really don’t labeling people with terms like this because they tend to pigeon hole and categorize people too much. They are full of meaning, but much of what we think they mean comes from our impressions. So before answering the question, let me give a little background.

The Bible is pretty clear that no one is righteous in his own right and nobody really seeks God on their own. Without the Holy Spirit, we cannot find God. We cannot save ourselves. The Bible does say that Jesus came to seek and save the lost, and that we should join Him on his mission. The Great Commission tells us to go and make disciples (not decisions, but disciples). I think making disciples begins with evangelism, but it doesn’t end there. And I think one of the truest signs of repentance and conversion is when a person shares their faith.

I think Jesus was seeker sensitive.  I’ve come to seek the Lost is pretty clear.   He certainly wasn’t soft on sin, and He spoke truth. Sometimes, His truth was too hard for the listener and they turned away. Jesus didn’t chase after the man who had many posessions and decided not to follow and lower the bar.  He watched him walk!

Still, Jesus seemed to have a special place in his heart for those that did not know God. He performed miracles so people would believe He was the Son of God, so they would repent and follow.  His mercy was tied to repentance.  He hung out with sinners, which drew repeated fire from the ultra-religious wing of Judaism.

So with that being said, let me answer the question. Is Oak Leaf Church a seeker-sensitive or a seeker-driven church? Yes and no. (That should clear it all up!) We do care about lost people…a great deal. We keep guest in mind when we plan our services and decide where to put a sign. We want to be good hosts when people come to our building, and we try to explain things to people in a way that they can understand. When we do “churchy” things, like receive an offering or do baptism or do the Lord’ supper, we don’t assume that everyone know what is going on.

I think it’s just kind to consider outsiders and guests when “doing church.” But we don’t do that to the neglect of teaching the word, encouraging Christians or doing some things that many would consider “churchy.” It’s my job to teach God’s Word - even some of the tough things. I personally know of people that left our church because during a series on Issues, I called abortion and homosexuality sins (which is what God’s Word does). Those were not really seeker-friendly messages, at least in the modern understanding of that word. But my job isn’t to teach people how to grow better grass or simply get along with their third cousins…my mission is to lead people to where God wants them to be. I’m not giving a pep talk…I’m delivering a sermon.

I’m not going to be all fire and brimstone all the time. Jesus talked about money more than he talked about hell, so we’re going to try and help people get out of debt. I want people to be better fathers and mothers, I’m going to talk about grace, mercy and forgiveness, because that’s what people need. And we’re going to have some fun. We’re going to make some funny videos. I’m going to make jokes. We’re going to minister and serve out of our personality.

When I read the Bible, I see that we need to put a focus on evangelism and discipleship. We need to reach people. If we set up our church in such a way that neglects lost people, then we are failing. And we can’t just go for mass decisions at an evangelism rally - we have a responsibility to make disciples. I think evangelism and discipleship are both required. I’m going to push the limits towards both extremes. If having a church service in a bar on Sunday nights means reaching more people, then we’re going to do it. If teaching God’s Word on the subject of pornography means we offend someone, then oh well.

It’s not an issue of is the church service for Christians or is the church service for lost people. A church service is for God. Worshiping Him is the ultimate reason for our continued existence. It glorifies God when a lost person comes into the Kingdom. And it glorifies God when a Christian lives a holy life.

So, yea…I guess we’re seeker sensitive.  But more than that…I hope we always stay God sensitive.

Was the Early Church Seeker Sensitive?

I’ve been listening to a seminary class via iTunes - the History of Christianity Part 1.  In the class, the professor, Dr. Frank James III, describes what worship looked like in the second century church.  Let me summarize.

He says there were basically two parts to a worship service - Bible reading, teaching (for explanation and a challenge to live a holy life), singing, and praying (both spontaneous and prepared.)  It borrowed heavily from Jewish worship in the synagogue (which is understandable considering Christianity came from Judaism) Anybody could attend this part of the service - whether or not you had been baptized.  If you were just checking out Christianity, or not yet a true convert, you could attend this part of of the service.

But then there was a second part of the service, which only those who had been baptized could attend.  Remember, you could be killed for being a Christian, and baptism was the ultimate public display of affection for Jesus.  This second part of the service would contain the Lord’s Supper.  And I believe the offering.

I find it interesting that the early church made a distinction between these two parts of a worship service.  They apparently took into consideration that there were people on different spiritual levels in the service.  They had a part of the service that was reserved for true Christians, but still allowed others to hear the sermon and participate in singing and praying.

At Oak Leaf Church, I recognize that on every Sunday, there are people in the audience that come from a variety of spiritual backgrounds.  Some are Christians, but some are not.  It’s a challenge to prepare a service that encourages the Christian towards holy living, presents the gospel for those who do not believe, and conveys truth to all who atten - from the 16 year old student the 65 year old retired lady.

It seems to me that this early church was mindful of people that didn’t yet know Christ when planning their worship services, which leads me to believe that the “seeker-sensitive movement” (I hate the term, because on one hand the Bible says there is no one that seeks God, and on the other hand we’re all supposed to be out seeking and making disciples) isn’t a new invention.

What do you think about this?  And I wonder how the boys and girls from the Christian Research Network or Old Truth would respond to this.  I can’t believe I’m suggesting this, but if they can be nice, I’d like to invite them to respond.

Some Numbers

271.  That's how many volunteers serve at Oak Leaf Church at least once a month.  This is about 50% of our current adult attendance.  Our preschool director began her update with this statement:  "We have enough volunteers."  I don't know too many kids leaders that can say that.  People are stepping up big-time at Oak Leaf Church.  I'm proud to be the pastor of such an amazing church.  There's always room for people on the Production team, Hospitality team, Limelight team, or KidVenture team.

44.  That's how many middle school and high school students are signed up to be in student journey groups that are beginning this week.  We've been running about 90 students at our once a month student service, so this is a great start.  Middle school small groups will meet on campus on Sunday mornings; high school small groups are meeting on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.

28.  Jacky Amos was 28 years old and had been attending Oak Leaf Church for a little while.  He had joined a ministry team and was about to get plugged into a small group.  He had recently started reading his Bible like crazy and was inviting a ton of people to come to Oak Leaf Church.  He was killed by a drunk driver and Tim performed the graveside funeral service last week.  I understand that some of his family will be coming to Oak Leaf this week, because they were impressed by the change that they had seen in his life over the past few months.

Kids in Church Policy Explained

Warning - long post ahead.  I e-mailed this to our church today to clarify our kids policy.  Figured I would post it here in case you're not on our mailing list and want the info. 

Children in the Service

Since we instituted our kids in the service policy on August 12, 2007, we’ve had many discussions with people connected to our church and here in the office.  I know of people that have left our church and people that have come to our church as a direct result of this policy.  I wanted to take a moment to address our official stance on this, and answer some questions that have come our way.

We do not allow children between the ages of three months and fifth grade in the adult worship service.  Some people thought that policy would not translate to Woodland, or would only be in effect during a particular series.  However, this is our regular, normal, always-in-effect policy.  Because we care about people, we want them to participate in a service without any distractions.  Because we care about children, we want them to learn about Jesus in an appropriate environment.

There are three primary reasons why we made the decision.

Content.  Our main service is designed for adults.   We talk about what the Bible has to say about sex, parenting, and finances.  We recently discussed abortion, drinking, pornography and homosexuality.  Most children are not ready to discuss these topics the way we’re going to talk about them.   The music and the message isn’t always appropriate for children.  It does not do children any good to be forced to sit through a message on tithing or justification – they cannot understand what is being discussed.  In most circumstances, it actually does more harm than good.  You would not want a 5th grader to sit through a college algebra class (and then get upset with them for not sitting still).

I remember sitting in church as a young child and being bored and confused, doodling on the bulletins and sticking gum under the pews.   I literally hated going to “big church” and the only praying I did was that the service would end soon.  I have met people who hate church now because they were forced to “sit still” when they were children. On the other hand, I can still remember some of the important lessons I learned in Sunday School, at Vacation Bible School and other kid-friendly environments.  We don’t want to do anything that would promote to children the idea that God is boring, church is irrelevant and or Jesus is not for them.

KidVenture, on the other hand, is an environment that is designed for children.  The Bible stories, crafts, songs, themes, decorations, etc. are all done with children in mind.  The content of those environments is age-appropriate.

Consider this comment I recently read on a website discussion board.  A parent posted, “In our church, my two-year-old and my six-year-old attend the main service for approximately 10 minutes before the minister announces that it's time for the kids to go to their nursery and/or Sunday school classes. Within that space of time, I've had to stop them from crawling over the pews, running down the aisles, taking out the song books and donation envelopes and drawing all over them, playing noisily with a toy car of stuffed animal, etc.  I really try to restrain them…but I've just learned to endure it. It's getting a little bit better and it's important to me that they be exposed to a regular spiritual practice so we'll keep going with them but it really is a headache sometimes.”

Exposing them to regular spiritual practices and forcing them to endure something that was not designed for them is not going to help their spiritual development.  I don’t want parents to have to arm themselves with sippy cups and Cherios in order to  keep their children still in church.  In fact, Dr. James Dobson says that it’s not a reasonable expectation and may do more harm than good.

Distractions.  As a parent, if your child is in the adult service, you will have to devote a considerable amount of attention to helping them behave appropriately.   Anytime I am in public with any of my children, I have to devote at least some of my focus to helping them behave properly.  We have worked hard to create a service that will relate to your life and communicate a Biblical principle.  We want you to be able to focus on hearing from God.  We want people who are far from God to be able to consider the message.

As your child’s parent, it may not bother you to have them fidget in their seats or cry, but I can guarantee you that it bothers those sitting around you.  Because what we’re doing is so important, we want everyone in this room to be able to focus on the message and participate in worship.  As the pastor, it’s hard for me to concentrate on the message when I am trying to tune out a crying child.  The focus of I Corinthians 14 is maintaining a sense of order in a public worship service.  While we obviously don’t want any parent to get upset and leave the church over this, we don’t want the desires of a few to outweigh the needs of many.

I do not want anyone to get angry and leave the church, but I do want you to respect the hundreds of other people in the room.

Appropriate Environments. We never want to think of children as distractions, and it’s not their fault if they act out in an environment that was not designed for them.  We have an excellent environment for children.  We have staff and volunteer teams  who are capable to provide leadership and passionate about leading children to Jesus.

In addition to being a pastor, I am also a parent.  I can say that there is no other place that I want my children on Sunday morning than in their age-appropriate environment in KidVentuere. We are proud of the environment that we have created for children.  They will learn about Jesus through stories, songs, games and crafts.  Some of these things, they will remember for life.

I also want everyone I know to speak Biblical truth into the life of my child.  We have Godly, caring adults who invest in children every week.  We complete a background check on every volunteer and provide training for everybody that works with children. We believe that teaching them in ways that they can understand is keeping with their spirit of Jesus and the importance he placed on children.  During our first year as a church, more than ten children have prayed to receive Christ during KidVenture.

As a church, we will do everything we can to help guests, new parents, and everyone else be comfortable with what happens on Sunday morning.  Greeters and ushers will introduce you to the KidVenture volunteers, who will be glad to give you a tour.  You can obtain a guest badge and observe your child’s class, or stay with them for the entire time.  We can provide DVDs of the service and our messages are all online.  And you’re welcome to serve as a volunteer in any of the KidVenture environments.  We will do whatever it takes to help you feel comfortable.

I understand there are some that strongly believe that Sunday morning worship should be for the whole family, and I certainly respect your opinions.  But there are 168 hours in the week, and there are plenty of opportunities to worship together as a family.   And while we don’t want anyone to leave our church over this, we recognize that there are several other churches in Bartow County where worship as a family might be encouraged.
Our heart is to reach everyone in Cartersville with the message of Jesus.  We want to reach adults.  We want to reach children.  We want to reach teenagers.  We want to reach college students.  We want to offer adults a creative, relevant, engaging and appropriate service on Sunday mornings.  And through KidVenture, we want to offer that same type of experience.

Frequently Asked Questions

1.    Doesn’t this take a decision away from parents?  In a way, we recognize that it does.  But we’re asking parents to lay down their personal preferences for one hour a week for the benefit of everyone in the room.  Remember, a corporate worship service is different from a private worship experience or even a family worship experience.  There are hundreds of people in the room.  Frankly, the effectiveness of a worship service is not a parent decision; it’s something that leadership of Oak Leaf Church takes seriously.

2.    What if my child is really mature?  It’s obvious that you’re doing a great job of parenting.  However, we’re not going to make exceptions because it’s not fair to our volunteer teams to make judgment calls on who is capable and who is not.  We apply this rule to staff children and children of volunteers.  Perhaps your child has been gifted with unique perspective or spiritual maturity.  If that’s the case, then he or she needs to be an environment where they can use those gifts to lead other children.  We believe that children can be leaders.  Maybe they need to participate in a KidVenture environment, not for what they will simply get out of the lesson, but for what they can add to the discussion.

3.    What if I’m uncomfortable with the kids ministry environment?  We understand that new environments can be difficult.  That’s why we will do everything we can to help parents feel comfortable.  We’ll give tours, guest badges and make introductions.  You’re always welcome to stay with your child until you do feel comfortable.  We take great care in selecting leaders – performing background checks on every volunteer who works with children and always keeping two adults in every environment.  Part of being a mature parent is learning to trust qualified, experienced people with your child.

4.    What about guests?  We design our entire Sunday morning experience with guests in mind.  We think guests want to observe the service and listen to the message without the distractions of crying children or feeling a child kick the back of their seat.  In fact, guests are one of the driving factors behind this policy.

5.    Isn’t this unbiblical?  We know that Jesus had a special place in his heart for children.  In a way, we believe that this policy speaks directly to that.  We work hard and invest many resources in creating an environment where children can meet Jesus.  We believe we are honoring the heart of God by leading children from where they are to where God wants them to be.  We believe it actually does a disservice to children by expecting them to participate in something that was clearly designed for adults.  At the same time, this policy is not an issue of right or wrong.  It’s not right or wrong to have a family service – it’s a choice that we’re making based on our freedom in Christ and who we are trying to reach.

There you go...if you made it this far, thanks for reading.  Hope it helps.

In Their Shoes

I think one of the smartest thing we can do as people, as churches, as parents, etc. is to try and put ourselves in their shoes. When we do that, we end up with a little perspective. It may not change our foundational principles, but it may help us process differently or communicate better.

Parents naturally forget what it was like to be a teenager.
Christians forget what it was like to not go to church.
Those not in debt don't know what it's like to have a car reposessed.

At our church, we don't allow children under 6th grade in our adult worship service. We have a great environment for children where they will learn about Jesus in a way that makes sense to them. We don't get a lot of complaints about this, but when we do, people accuse us of trying to make parental decisions for them. I try to put myself in their shoes and explain things that will help. But sometimes, parents that get mad and leave our church. Their crying kid doesn't bother them, but it does distract everyone else in their vicinity. If they were in those shoes, they wouldn't be thinking, "What a cute kid."  Put yourself in their shoes, and maybe you will lay down your preferences.

As church-goers, we forget what it's like to walk into a place for the first time. For many in our community, stepping back into church for the first time in ten years, would be like you being in high school after 15 years. Or what it would be like you attending a Budhist temple. You don't know when to sit and when to stand. You don't know where the bathrooms are. You feel like everyone is looking at you. Put yourself in the shoes of a guest, and maybe you'll set things up a little differently.

As a teenager, put yourself in your parents shoes for a moment. You've got hassles (and your parents do  minimize those too often), but they have bosses and jobs and bills and cars and college funds. They have different experiences that shape their decisions.  They have reasons that you may not understand. They have a big weight on their shoulder. And you're the biggest.  Put yourself in their shoes, and maybe you will respect them on a different level.

The Controversial Church (Part 3)

As I finish up this series of posts, I want to take you back to where all this controversial stuff comes from in the first place. The bottom line is...Jesus was controversial. He constantly said things and did things that didn't fit people's pattern. He broke molds and confounded people's thinking. Consider.

1. He consistently offended the religious crowd. Not only did he flat out call them names (brood of vipers), he did things that offended these hyper-religious people. He broke their laws (not God's laws) and broke their traditions. The people we offend with our marketing and strategies are not unchruched people - it's deacons and super-Christians from other churches. Because we care more about raising money for missions instead of raising money for choir robes, that ticks some people off. Because we show up at a public event with a flier advertising "Porn Sunday," that bothers people that don't think that the church should stoop to such tactics.

2. He said controversial things. The whole messiah talk probably generated a lot of controversy, and if blogs were around back then, his claims surely would have showed up on technorati. He blew peoples minds with one liners and teachings. Murder, murder you say. I'm telling you that anger is the same thing. Adultery is bad, yes. But I'm saying lust is just as damaging. People talked about Jesus' message, because it was out of the ordinary. It wasn't the same stuff they were used to hearing for decades.

3. He was accused of being lots of things. He was accused of being drunk. He was accused of being blasphemous. Jesus took lots of heat from lots of people. I really think that if people aren't complaining about what the church is doing, then that means you're invisible. People don't take notice of a church that has no influence (I'm not talking about political influence...I'm talking about influence in people's lives). We're not seeking to antagonize people on purpose...we're not seeking controversy, but I understand that when something works, people will be there to throw rocks.

4. He hung out with the wrong crowd. He hung out with people that He wasn't supposed to care about. He talked to prostitutes and touched lepers. And some people didn't like that about Jesus. He thought he should have kept to the right crowd. I can't help but imagine that were Jesus here today, there would be people that would want him to speak on the church circuit instead of in the bars. Jesus hung out with people that were far from God. Sure, it was his mission. But I am convinced that he liked hanging around those people. I think Jesus was the center of attention at these places, not because of his wild antics, but because he was a magnetic person who people liked to be around. I don't think it's mistake that the first recorded miracle of Jesus took place at a party to which he was invited.

The Controversial Church (Part 2)

Yesterday, I wrote about some of the things that make us controversial in the eyes of the world. Today, let me describe for you some of the things that go on at Oak Leaf Church.

1. We teach the Bible. We may do it in a way that people can understand, but don't be confused...we're teaching God's Word and not my opinions of it. Ever week, I teach for about 35 minutes. And some of the things we talk about are tough things. Like what the Bible says about divorce. Like repentance. Like sin. There are some that say you can only preach for 20 minutes or you'll lose people. Those are the boring preachers that don't work hard that say that.

2. We teach the Bible pretty hard. There are times when I can be hard and honest with people. I don't soften it up because I don't want to offend people. I want to speak the truth in love. When I talked about homosexuality, I read several verses that clearly labeled the practice as sin. Some people got up and left. Some people sent me e-mails. But the fact is, that I don't get to pick and choose what parts of the Bible I believe.

3. We talk about real life issues - the same things that the Bible talks about. Some people got ticked that we were doing a series on sex. Well, the Bible talks about sex quite a bit. We're not going to apologize for talking about God's design for sex and helping people keep from ruining their life. We're also not going to apologize for using sermon titles, fliers and postcards that some may consider provocative in order to get people to come to church. We think long and hard if there is a line that something is crossing, and to date, we've never put out anything that we've regretted.

4. We can be deep. It's a mistake to think that seeker-sensitive (whatever that means) churches have to water down the message in order to connect with unchurched people. Just because someone is not a Christian doesn't mean they are a moron. People that don't know God are not stupid people who cannot understand what you're talking about. I try to bring some information and application to the table every weekend. I try to explain God's Word to the best of my ability. Some times, simple truths are the hardest to follow (love your neighbor).

5. We put a high value on children and teenagers. We don't think Jesus is just for adults. We spend an incredible amount of money and energy on children and students. As a parent, I want to go to a church that values my children. I don't wan them treated like second class Christians, and I don't want them bored out of their minds at church. I don't want to force them to sit still through "big church." I don't want teenagers thinking church is out of date or useless to their everyday life.  We put a high value on this generation - we have a staff that focuses on them - and we spend a lot of time and money here.

Great Lunch…Great Pastor

A few days ago, I had lunch with Randall Williams, the new pastor of First Baptist Church in Cartersville.  We've been meaning to connect for some time and we finally had the chance to do it.  We talked about life, Cartersville, pastoring and church over chips and salsa.  I'm sure that First Baptist Cartersville, under Randall's leadership, will continue to grow and reach people for Christ.  I'm glad he's on our side, and I always enjoy hanging with like-minded pastors.

Church Things that Aren’t Biblical

You won't find this stuff in the Bible...

1. Hymnals


2. Choirs


3. Sunday School


4. Constitutions and Bylaws


5. Pipe Organs (interestingly enough, you do find drums and stringed instruments)


6. Sunday Bulletins


7. Children's church


8. Pulpits


9. Baptistry's


10. 60 minute church services


11. Ministers of Youth, Music, or Education


12. Preaching verse by verse through the Bible


13. Topical sermon series

Does that mean all of these things are wrong? Of course not (okay, maybe the pipe organ is wrong). But so much of what we do as a church, even in the most traditional church, is the result of man-made thinking in the church. Churches across the board have adopted a certain way to do things...something that was not prescribed in the Bible, but something they determined to be effective in accomplishing Christ's mission.  Before you're so quick to judge a church for using drums, just remember that there were no organs in the upper room.

Anything else you want to add to the list?