You Can Know God

Kids in Church Policy Explained

Warning - long post ahead.  I e-mailed this to our church today to clarify our kids policy.  Figured I would post it here in case you're not on our mailing list and want the info. 

Children in the Service

Since we instituted our kids in the service policy on August 12, 2007, we’ve had many discussions with people connected to our church and here in the office.  I know of people that have left our church and people that have come to our church as a direct result of this policy.  I wanted to take a moment to address our official stance on this, and answer some questions that have come our way.

We do not allow children between the ages of three months and fifth grade in the adult worship service.  Some people thought that policy would not translate to Woodland, or would only be in effect during a particular series.  However, this is our regular, normal, always-in-effect policy.  Because we care about people, we want them to participate in a service without any distractions.  Because we care about children, we want them to learn about Jesus in an appropriate environment.

There are three primary reasons why we made the decision.

Content.  Our main service is designed for adults.   We talk about what the Bible has to say about sex, parenting, and finances.  We recently discussed abortion, drinking, pornography and homosexuality.  Most children are not ready to discuss these topics the way we’re going to talk about them.   The music and the message isn’t always appropriate for children.  It does not do children any good to be forced to sit through a message on tithing or justification – they cannot understand what is being discussed.  In most circumstances, it actually does more harm than good.  You would not want a 5th grader to sit through a college algebra class (and then get upset with them for not sitting still).

I remember sitting in church as a young child and being bored and confused, doodling on the bulletins and sticking gum under the pews.   I literally hated going to “big church” and the only praying I did was that the service would end soon.  I have met people who hate church now because they were forced to “sit still” when they were children. On the other hand, I can still remember some of the important lessons I learned in Sunday School, at Vacation Bible School and other kid-friendly environments.  We don’t want to do anything that would promote to children the idea that God is boring, church is irrelevant and or Jesus is not for them.

KidVenture, on the other hand, is an environment that is designed for children.  The Bible stories, crafts, songs, themes, decorations, etc. are all done with children in mind.  The content of those environments is age-appropriate.

Consider this comment I recently read on a website discussion board.  A parent posted, “In our church, my two-year-old and my six-year-old attend the main service for approximately 10 minutes before the minister announces that it's time for the kids to go to their nursery and/or Sunday school classes. Within that space of time, I've had to stop them from crawling over the pews, running down the aisles, taking out the song books and donation envelopes and drawing all over them, playing noisily with a toy car of stuffed animal, etc.  I really try to restrain them…but I've just learned to endure it. It's getting a little bit better and it's important to me that they be exposed to a regular spiritual practice so we'll keep going with them but it really is a headache sometimes.”

Exposing them to regular spiritual practices and forcing them to endure something that was not designed for them is not going to help their spiritual development.  I don’t want parents to have to arm themselves with sippy cups and Cherios in order to  keep their children still in church.  In fact, Dr. James Dobson says that it’s not a reasonable expectation and may do more harm than good.

Distractions.  As a parent, if your child is in the adult service, you will have to devote a considerable amount of attention to helping them behave appropriately.   Anytime I am in public with any of my children, I have to devote at least some of my focus to helping them behave properly.  We have worked hard to create a service that will relate to your life and communicate a Biblical principle.  We want you to be able to focus on hearing from God.  We want people who are far from God to be able to consider the message.

As your child’s parent, it may not bother you to have them fidget in their seats or cry, but I can guarantee you that it bothers those sitting around you.  Because what we’re doing is so important, we want everyone in this room to be able to focus on the message and participate in worship.  As the pastor, it’s hard for me to concentrate on the message when I am trying to tune out a crying child.  The focus of I Corinthians 14 is maintaining a sense of order in a public worship service.  While we obviously don’t want any parent to get upset and leave the church over this, we don’t want the desires of a few to outweigh the needs of many.

I do not want anyone to get angry and leave the church, but I do want you to respect the hundreds of other people in the room.

Appropriate Environments. We never want to think of children as distractions, and it’s not their fault if they act out in an environment that was not designed for them.  We have an excellent environment for children.  We have staff and volunteer teams  who are capable to provide leadership and passionate about leading children to Jesus.

In addition to being a pastor, I am also a parent.  I can say that there is no other place that I want my children on Sunday morning than in their age-appropriate environment in KidVentuere. We are proud of the environment that we have created for children.  They will learn about Jesus through stories, songs, games and crafts.  Some of these things, they will remember for life.

I also want everyone I know to speak Biblical truth into the life of my child.  We have Godly, caring adults who invest in children every week.  We complete a background check on every volunteer and provide training for everybody that works with children. We believe that teaching them in ways that they can understand is keeping with their spirit of Jesus and the importance he placed on children.  During our first year as a church, more than ten children have prayed to receive Christ during KidVenture.

As a church, we will do everything we can to help guests, new parents, and everyone else be comfortable with what happens on Sunday morning.  Greeters and ushers will introduce you to the KidVenture volunteers, who will be glad to give you a tour.  You can obtain a guest badge and observe your child’s class, or stay with them for the entire time.  We can provide DVDs of the service and our messages are all online.  And you’re welcome to serve as a volunteer in any of the KidVenture environments.  We will do whatever it takes to help you feel comfortable.

I understand there are some that strongly believe that Sunday morning worship should be for the whole family, and I certainly respect your opinions.  But there are 168 hours in the week, and there are plenty of opportunities to worship together as a family.   And while we don’t want anyone to leave our church over this, we recognize that there are several other churches in Bartow County where worship as a family might be encouraged.
Our heart is to reach everyone in Cartersville with the message of Jesus.  We want to reach adults.  We want to reach children.  We want to reach teenagers.  We want to reach college students.  We want to offer adults a creative, relevant, engaging and appropriate service on Sunday mornings.  And through KidVenture, we want to offer that same type of experience.

Frequently Asked Questions

1.    Doesn’t this take a decision away from parents?  In a way, we recognize that it does.  But we’re asking parents to lay down their personal preferences for one hour a week for the benefit of everyone in the room.  Remember, a corporate worship service is different from a private worship experience or even a family worship experience.  There are hundreds of people in the room.  Frankly, the effectiveness of a worship service is not a parent decision; it’s something that leadership of Oak Leaf Church takes seriously.

2.    What if my child is really mature?  It’s obvious that you’re doing a great job of parenting.  However, we’re not going to make exceptions because it’s not fair to our volunteer teams to make judgment calls on who is capable and who is not.  We apply this rule to staff children and children of volunteers.  Perhaps your child has been gifted with unique perspective or spiritual maturity.  If that’s the case, then he or she needs to be an environment where they can use those gifts to lead other children.  We believe that children can be leaders.  Maybe they need to participate in a KidVenture environment, not for what they will simply get out of the lesson, but for what they can add to the discussion.

3.    What if I’m uncomfortable with the kids ministry environment?  We understand that new environments can be difficult.  That’s why we will do everything we can to help parents feel comfortable.  We’ll give tours, guest badges and make introductions.  You’re always welcome to stay with your child until you do feel comfortable.  We take great care in selecting leaders – performing background checks on every volunteer who works with children and always keeping two adults in every environment.  Part of being a mature parent is learning to trust qualified, experienced people with your child.

4.    What about guests?  We design our entire Sunday morning experience with guests in mind.  We think guests want to observe the service and listen to the message without the distractions of crying children or feeling a child kick the back of their seat.  In fact, guests are one of the driving factors behind this policy.

5.    Isn’t this unbiblical?  We know that Jesus had a special place in his heart for children.  In a way, we believe that this policy speaks directly to that.  We work hard and invest many resources in creating an environment where children can meet Jesus.  We believe we are honoring the heart of God by leading children from where they are to where God wants them to be.  We believe it actually does a disservice to children by expecting them to participate in something that was clearly designed for adults.  At the same time, this policy is not an issue of right or wrong.  It’s not right or wrong to have a family service – it’s a choice that we’re making based on our freedom in Christ and who we are trying to reach.

There you go...if you made it this far, thanks for reading.  Hope it helps.

Kids Check In

We're not using our conference room for many conferences these days.  Last week, Will had a bunch of video projectors and computers set up, testing out our new video system.  This week, Anthony is testing out computers, routers, bar code scanners and label printers for the new kids check in system.  We hope to have it in effect this week.  Parents will be able to have on of those little bar code things on their key chain and check in children quickly.  Hopefully, we'll soon be able to have meetings in this room.

That’s a Leader

At our all staff meeting this week, Tanya (our preschool director who is doing a fantastic job) told us a story. Her 5 year old told her small group leader at church that she wanted a pink shell from the beach. Robbie Reeves is her teacher, and he was heading out on vacation.

Robbie came back from vacation and gave that little girl a pink shell. How many adults will remember the silly request of a 5 year old from their church while on vacation? This is the kind of thing that makes Robbie a great volunteer. And the kind of thing that makes our church what it is.

By the way, my five year old is also in this class, and she comes home every week telling me Bible stories. Last week, she told me all about Gideon defeating the Midianites with just 300 people.

Children in Church: Decision Reached

For the last year, our staff has been talking about children in church - discussing it from all possible angles. We've discussed it to death, and I've talked to a half dozen other pastors about it. I've blogged about my personal opinions ( most recently here and here), but we're implementing an official policy @ OLC.

As a staff, we are making the decision to let our worship service be for those in 6th grade and up.  (The only exception will be newborns three months or under.)  This service is designed with middle school, high school, college students and adults in mind. KidVenture, on the other hand, is solely designed with children in mind. Teams of committed volunteers work hard all week long to prepare to teach children some of life’s most important truths.

Next weekend, as we kick off the Isn't She Lovely series, I'm going to talk about this with the whole church. Then, we'll send a letter to every parent in our database. But I wanted to give my blog readers a heads up. There are three primary reasons why we are making this decision.

1. Content. Our main service is designed for adults. We talk about what the Bible has to say about sex, parenting, and finances. In the fall, we’re going to devote several weeks to discussion abortion, drinking, racism and homosexuality. Most children are not ready to discuss these topics the way we’re going to talk about them. The music and the message isn’t always appropriate for children.

I remember sitting in church as a young child and being bored and confused, doodling on the bulletins and sticking gum under the pews. I literally hated going to “big church” and the only praying I did was that the service would end soon. I have met people who hate church now because they were forced to “sit still” when they were children. On the other hand, I can still remember some of the important lessons I learned in Sunday School, at Vacation Bible School and other kid-friendly environments. We don’t want to do anything that would promote to children the idea that God is boring, church is irrelevant and or Jesus is not for them.

2. Distractions. As a parent, if your child is in this service, you will have to devote a considerable amount of attention to helping them behave appropriately. Anytime I am in public with any of my children, I have to devote at least some of my focus to helping them behave properly.

As your child’s parent, it may not bother you to have them fidget in their seats or cry, but I can guarantee you that it bothers those sitting around you. Because what we’re doing is so important, we want everyone in this room to be able to focus on the message and participate in worship. I personally struggle with distractions, and they often come up at the most crucial part of the message. As the pastor, it’s hard for me to concentrate on the message when I am trying to tune out a crying child. The focus of I Corinthians 14 is maintaining a sense of order in a public worship service. While we obviously don’t want any parent to get upset and leave the church over this, but we don’t want the desires of a few to outweigh the needs of many.

I do not want anyone to get angry and leave the church, but I do want you to respect the hundreds of other people in the room, as well as the person on the stage trying to communicate God's Word with passion, clarity and focus.

3. Appropriate Environments. We never want to think of children as distractions, and it’s not their fault if they act out in an environment that was not designed for them. We have an excellent environment for children.

In addition to being a pastor, I am also a parent. I can say that there is no other place that I want my children on Sunday morning than in their age-appropriate environment in KidVenture. We are proud of the environment that we have created for children. They will learn about Jesus through stories, songs, games and crafts. Some of these things, they will remember for life.

I also want everyone I know to speak Biblical truth into the life of my child. We have Godly, caring adults who invest in children every week. We complete a background check on every volunteer and provide training for everybody that works with children. We believe that teaching them in ways that they can understand is keeping with their spirit of Jesus and the importance he placed on children. During our first year as a church, more than ten elementary children have prayed to receive Christ during KidVenture.

As a church, we will do everything we can to help guests, new parents, and everyone else be comfortable with what happens on Sunday morning. Greeters and ushers will introduce you to the KidVenture volunteers, who will be glad to give you a tour. You can obtain a guest badge and observe your child’s class, or stay with them for the entire time. And you’re welcome to serve as a volunteer in any of the KidVenture environments.

I understand there are some that strongly believe that Sunday morning worship should be for the whole family, and I certainly respect your opinions. But there are 168 hours in the week, and there are plenty of opportunities to worship together as a family. You may not agree with this, and that's okay. But it's how we are going to operate. So beginning on August 12, children under 6th grade will not be allowed in the worship service.

Our heart is to reach everyone in Cartersville with the message of Jesus. We want to reach adults. We want to reach children. We want to reach teenagers. We want to reach college students. We want to offer adults a creative, relevant, engaging and appropriate service on Sunday mornings. And through KidVenture, we want to offer that same type of experience.

More on Children

This post last week stirred up some controversy, but I wanted to share even more thoughts on the subject.

This morning, during our second service, there was a child in the service that was making quite a bit of noise.  I don’t know who it was, and I’m not trying to single anyone out.   I don’t know if it as a regular attender or a guest, and that’s okay.  I don’t know who you were and I don’t need to know.  I would have this thought if it was my own child.

For whatever reason, nobody got up to take the child out.  This went on for 7-10 minutes (though it felt like 30.)  I was visibly distracted and several people told me that after the service.  Maybe I’m not a good enough speaker to be able to tune that stuff out, but it was bothering me.  I stumbled through some pretty important stuff at the end of my message.  I was so close to asking an usher to offer assistance in helping that parent take their child to the lobby.  That would have been bad.

I really don’t want to offend anyone, cause anyone to stumble or any of that, but having young children in the service is selfish.  At lunch, someone who was sitting behind that child told me that they were distracted the entire service, as were all the people sitting around that area.  So there were dozens of people who could not focus on the message because they were watching a three-year-old walk up and down the aisle.

I don’t mean to sound rude, but a parent’s fear of leaving a child in the nursery, or their desire to worship together as a family, does not outweigh the needs of the 30 people sitting around that person, and the needs of this pastor trying to communicate God’s Word.

That child didn’t get anything out of that service.   It's not appropriate for children, in the same way a college class wouldn't be appropriate for a 3rd grader.  Several people, maybe other family members, were apparently “shussing” constantly, and I cannot imagine that they were able to focus on the message or the worship or anything else except for keeping their kid quiet. So the child wasn’t learning anything.  The parents weren’t focusing on anything.  And lots of people were distracted.

Guys, whatever your personal feelings are on this, as the pastor of this church, I am going to ask you to respect mine.  I cannot concentrate on teaching when there are disruptive children in the service.  We have a great, appropriate environment for children, and I need you to take your children there.  I do not want you to get angry, leave the church, etc., but I want you to respect the hundreds of other people in the room.  It may not bother you, as the child’s mom or dad, but I heard first hand how it bothers other people.  I would never want you to feel like your child is a stumbling block, but that’s what happened today.  To borrow some words form Mark Batterson, that parent compromised the experience of everyone around them today.

Our service is designed for adults.  You can disagree with that as a parent, a Bible scholar, or whatever, but that’s our strategy.  Likewise, our kids areas are not for adults.  They are designed with the needs of your child in mind.  Please don’t think that other people are not qualified to care for your children.  Please trust us.  If you can’t, then how can you trust that we’re leading you in any other area.  I want to ask you lay aside your own desires for the benefits of others, including those in the room and the person teaching the Bible from the stage.

I believe so strongly in our kids ministry, and our leaders down there.  My two year old has been learning about Noah and can tell me the story.  I believe it is what’s best for your children, and I’m asking  you to trust me.  I understand that this might offend someone, or that these kinds of posts might push people away from our church.  That’s not my attention. I do want the best for you and your family and your children. But as the pastor, I always want the best for those sitting around you.

We will do everything we can to help you.  I know several churches that have a “no children” rule and as a church staff, we’re going to talk about it.  But in the mean time, I’m going to ask for your understanding.  If, in the end, you can’t get past this and decide to go to a church where you can sit as a family, that’s okay.  I don’t want that, but as they say, “you can’t please everybody.”  I hope you hear my heart on this and don't jump to the conclusion that I am against children.  I have three of them!

Children in Church

We used a clip from The Last Samauri in church this past week, and I got a few e-mails stating that it wasn't appropriate, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to talk about my thought on children in the service. We don't have any rules about who is allowed in the service. But I do have some strong thoughts on the subject. These are my personal thoughts, not official statements from Oak Leaf Church.

First up, let me say that the main service is a service designed for adults. We choose songs, videos, message content, jokes and everything else for those who are in middle school and older. We do not plan that service with children in mind.

We have other environments that are planned with only children in mind. KidVenture is filled with games, stories, songs and videos that are kid-appropriate. I have three kids myself, and those old enough to tell me their opinions really love it over there.

Complaining to me that the service isn't appropriate for children is about the same as complaining to me that you as an adult didn't get anything out of the preschool lesson that day. In short, it wasn't designed for you. You wouldn't sit a 3rd grader in a college Algebra class.

There is nothing super spiritual about forcing young children to sit through a service that they don't understand, and listen to a message that is over their heads. I remember having to endure "adult church" as a kid, and trust me, it didn't teach me any valuable lessons. If anything, it taught me that church was boring and not for me.

Your sweet little child may not bother you, but I can assure you that it's not the case for those sitting around you. Nobody likes to sit through a movie with a kid kicking the back of their chair or a screaming baby three seats over. The same goes for church. You may not be distracted, but you're not the only one in the room. You can accuse me of not caring about your kids feelings and quote the "suffer the children" verse at me, but what about all the other people who cannot worship or listen because of your child. Not to mention, you aren't really in a position to hear from God when you're picking up goldfish and trying to keep the little one off the lady in front of you. As a parent, I know you think most about your kids, but we also need to remember that there are others there too.
There are always those that think church should be a family hour, and to that, I say that's totally cool. There are family churches that don't provide children's programming for this very reason. If you're really passionate about worshiping as a family, then I would go to one of those churches. I do not think it is wrong to have family church or family services. One of my favorite churches does it every week. I simply want to remind you that there are 168 hours in the week that you could worship together. Family worship time doesn't have to be just one hour on Sunday.

We go to great lengths to provide programming for children that is fun and appropriate. I want children thinking that church is fun and understandable, not something they have to endure until they get out of high school and don't have to go. If you aren't comfortable leaving your kids, we'll let you stay with them. We'll give you tours. We'll help you feel comfortable. We won't make you leave your kids in the nursery. But as a parent, I think you need to be able to leave your child for an hour with a caring adult who loves Jesus and loves your kid, who has been screened and background checked, and who will teach your child about Jesus.

We're going to continue to use movie clips, Biblical stories, and four syllable words in our service designed for adults. And we're going to keep using puppets, hand motions, and crayons to teach children about Jesus.

Update: The particular clip illustrated "honor" and showed all the Japanese soldiers bowing to honor the fallen Samauri. I thought it was a powerful illustration. In the end, I think we should have done a little better job setting up the clip, and giving a warning to parents like we did during the series on Biblical sex. We'll definitely do that next time.

Children’s Environments

Who can point me to pictures of really cool children's environments, preferably portable ones?

Kidmo vs. Elevate

We may be making a change with our elementary curriculum.

Kidmo.  5 weeks.  $249.  We've used this for 6 different times.
Elevate.  8 weeks.  $149.  Just ordered a copy to check out and maybe use this summer.

Both look pretty similar in format, quality and content.  Anybody have any experience with either or both?

Family Pastor

We're looking for a full time Family Pastor to join our staff team. This is a management level position, requiring a lot of administration and organizational skills.  You'd oversee staff, budgets, do leadership development, and lead a team of volunteers.  We have over 120 children attending on Sundays and about 50 volunteers.  We have a great new student ministry with some great leadership.  So we're looking for someone to lead, guide and direct.  If you're interested, or know someone who is interested, let me know.

Children Today

I was reading back through some of my notes from some of the conferences I attended last year.  Even though I'm a pastor, I went to a children's ministry conference at Willow.  David Staal shared a couple of stats:

• According to a Duke study, only 15% of kids were "popular."
• A Hofstra study found that 100% of children have been called a hurtful name.
• Various studies show that 1 in 3 children live in a home without a mom or dad.

It's pretty hard to be a kid.  As adults, we think we have things rough, but kids have tough weeks too!  We can't forget that when we were kids, the problems we were facing seemed just as important a mortgage payments and work issues are for us now.

I want my kids to grow up in church, and I want them to like it.  I want them to look forward to going.  I want them to be around teachers and small group leaders that are teaching the same things we are teaching at home.  I don't want my kids to learn only from me...I want them to learn from as many people as possible.  There are well over 100 kids coming to Oak Leaf on Sunday, and some of them are bringing their parents!

There will come a day when Lauren, and Emma and Matthew will be teenagers and they won't talk to me about something.  At those times, I want loving and caring adults in their lives.  I want Christian friends in their lives.  I may be the ultimate one responsible for development and spiritual instruction, but I'm not prideful in thinking I don't need help.  I want a team.  That's one reason why we focus on kids so much at Oak Leaf.  That's why we're going to keep raising the bar in this area.  That's why the next full time person we bring on staff will be a Family Ministry Pastor of some sort.  That's why we teach children Bible verses and Bible stories.

It's tough to be a kid today.  The church, when the church is busy being the church, can help.